The Ministry of Regeneration

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
Good morning,

Question: Were the old testament saints regenerated?

Hope that ya'll enjoy the question. Talk to you soon,
Dave
Hello, Dave!

Hope all is well.

Good question! I suppose the answer is found in the question, "Does a person have to be regenerated in order to be saved?"

The next question would be, "Is regeneration equivalent to being "Born-again?""

And What did Jesus our Lord say? "In Order to see the Kingdom of God you must be born-again," also, "In order to Enter into the Kingdom of God, you Must be Born of the Water and Spirit."
 

DaveS

Well-Known Member
Good morning Hol,

Yes, and we have the Book of Hebrews list of many in chapter 11.

I imagine that you're making a connection between faith and regeneration. I'm not going to disagree, but can you substantiate that connection for anyone listening and learning from other teachings in scripture?

Thanks for taking interest!
Dave
 

DaveS

Well-Known Member
Good morning sir,

Hello, Dave!

Hope all is well.

All is well, thanks :) Hope it is with you and your family.

Good question! I suppose the answer is found in the question, "Does a person have to be regenerated in order to be saved?"

Well... if the answer isn't found there than it's certainly an interesting dynamic.

The next question would be, "Is regeneration equivalent to being "Born-again?""

Well, if regeneration is equivalent to being born again than one is still left with the task of finding out what happens within that process. Right? I guess that's part of what makes the topic intriguing and important in my opinion. What is lost? What is gained? What don't we have before regeneration? What do we have after?

For my part, I believe that regeneration is equal to being born again, and also these terms: Quickened, born anew, made alive, begotten, begotten of God, a new creation, and a child or children of God.

And What did Jesus our Lord say? "In Order to see the Kingdom of God you must be born-again," also, "In order to Enter into the Kingdom of God, you Must be Born of the Water and Spirit."

Yes sir. I'm sure that this has to be understood in order to harmonize one's opinion of whether or not the OT saints were regenerated. There are certainly many directions that a topic like this can take us and this is one. So... Which facet of the Kingdom would you say Jesus is referring to in the passage?

Thanks for your reply! Hope to hear more,
Dave
 

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
Hi, Dave...yes all is well here!

I believe there is Only One Kingdom that Is Spiritual, Those who will Live with Christ forever. And because one Must be Born of the Spirit to enter This Particular Kingdom, He must be speaking about the Family of God. One is either "In Adam" or "In Christ" and Those who are "in Christ" are Born-Again with Incorruptible Seed, Planted into the Eternal Kingdom of God. Those who are "in Christ" are a new Creation. Those who are a part of the "New Creation" will be a part of the New Heaven and Earth. And since we Know Old Testament Saints will be in the Eternal Kingdom, They must have been Regenerated, Born Again, in order to have entrance into it.
 

DaveS

Well-Known Member
I believe there is Only One Kingdom that Is Spiritual, Those who will Live with Christ forever.

I agree. I guess that adds context to your question before "Does a person have to be regenerated in order to be saved?".

And because one Must be Born of the Spirit to enter This Particular Kingdom, He must be speaking about the Family of God.

For the record, my question was which facet of the Kingdom was Jesus referring to. Not which Kingdom as in a distinct Kingdom... :)

Those who are a part of the "New Creation" will be a part of the New Heaven and Earth.

Don't forget about the Millennial Kingdom. The Millennial Kingdom is a different dispensation than the new heaven and earth. I say that since the Millennial Kingdom could very well be the aspect of the Kingdom referred to in (Jn 3:3, 5). At least it could be argued/taken/interpreted that way...

Regardless, Jesus certainly expects Nicodemus to understand the term born again (Jn. 3:10).
 

Brother Albert R.

Jesus loved us and said we should Love our enemies
Good morning,

Question: Were the old testament saints regenerated?

Hope that ya'll enjoy the question. Talk to you soon,
Dave
Let me take a crack at your enigma, Dave, by asking you a question on Matt. 22:29-33,
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. 31 But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” 33 And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.
Was Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob regenerated?
God bless you,
your brother in Christ,
Albert R.
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Are Born Again And Regeneration The Same?
Tuesday, July 7th, 2009


Q. What is regeneration? Being born again? Are these synonymous with each other? I always believed that at Pentecost is when man first became born again. OT saints were saved through faith and obedience to the law, and when they died, they went to Abraham’s bosom until Jesus took them to paradise because their sins hadn’t been atoned for yet and they weren’t born again.

A. Being born again is when you confess that you’re a sinner and ask the Lord to forgive you and come into your heart. The authority to ask this was made possible by the Lord’s death and resurrection. (John 1:12) Although the word Greek word translated regeneration (KJV) or rebirth (NIV) in Titus 3:5 is different from the one translated born again in John 3:3 they both come from the same root which means to become or come into existence. Therefore regeneration is another way of saying born again.

You’re correct in saying that Old Testament saints waited in Abraham’s Bosom until the Lord’s death because it took the shedding of His blood to give humanity access to Heaven. But Abraham’s Bosom and Paradise are two names for the same place. The first is a Hebrew idea and the 2nd is Greek. Jesus took the Old Testament saints to Heaven.


https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/are-born-again-and-regeneration-the-same/
 

Andy C

Well-Known Member
Question: "What is regeneration according to the Bible?"

Answer:
Another word for regeneration is rebirth, related to the biblical phrase “born again.” Our rebirth is distinguished from our first birth, when we were conceived physically and inherited our sin nature. The new birth is a spiritual, holy, and heavenly birth that results in our being made alive spiritually. Man in his natural state is “dead in trespasses and sins” until he is “made alive” (regenerated) by Christ. This happens when he places his faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:1).

Regeneration is a radical change. Just as our physical birth resulted in a new individual entering the earthly realm, our spiritual birth results in a new person entering the heavenly realm (Ephesians 2:6). After regeneration, we begin to see and hear and seek after divine things; we begin to live a life of faith and holiness. Now Christ is formed in the hearts; now we are partakers of the divine nature, having been made new creatures (2 Corinthians 5:17). God, not man, is the source of this transformation (Ephesians 2:1, 8). God’s great love and free gift, His rich grace and abundant mercy, are the cause of the rebirth. The mighty power of God—the power that raised Christ from the dead—is displayed in the regeneration and conversion of sinners (Ephesians 1:19–20).

Regeneration is necessary. Sinful human flesh cannot stand in God’s presence. In His conversation with Nicodemus, Jesus said twice that a man must be born again in order to see the kingdom of God (John 3:3, 7). Regeneration is not optional, for “flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit” (John 3:6). Physical birth fits us for earth; spiritual rebirth fits us for heaven. See Ephesians 2:1; 1 Peter 1:23; John 1:13; 1 John 3:9; 4:7; 5:1, 4, 18. Regeneration is part of what God does for us at the moment of salvation, along with sealing (Ephesians 1:14), adoption (Galatians 4:5), reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:18–20), etc. Regeneration is God’s making a person spiritually alive, as a result of faith in Jesus Christ. Prior to salvation we were not God’s children (John 1:12–13); rather, we were children of wrath (Ephesians 2:3; Romans 5:18–20). Before salvation, we were degenerate; after salvation we are regenerated. The result of regeneration is peace with God (Romans 5:1), new life (Titus 3:5; 2 Corinthians 5:17), and eternal sonship (John 1:12–13; Galatians 3:26). Regeneration begins the process of sanctification wherein we become the people God intends us to be (Romans 8:28–30).

The only means of regeneration is by faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross. No amount of good works or keeping of the Law can regenerate the heart. “By works of the law no human being will be justified in [God’s] sight” (Romans 3:20). Only Christ offers a cure for the total depravity of the human heart. We don’t need renovation or reformation or reorganization; we need rebirth.

https://gotquestions.org/regeneration-Bible.html
 

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
Question: "What is regeneration according to the Bible?"

Answer:
Another word for regeneration is rebirth, related to the biblical phrase “born again.” Our rebirth is distinguished from our first birth, when we were conceived physically and inherited our sin nature. The new birth is a spiritual, holy, and heavenly birth that results in our being made alive spiritually. Man in his natural state is “dead in trespasses and sins” until he is “made alive” (regenerated) by Christ. This happens when he places his faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:1).

Regeneration is a radical change. Just as our physical birth resulted in a new individual entering the earthly realm, our spiritual birth results in a new person entering the heavenly realm (Ephesians 2:6). After regeneration, we begin to see and hear and seek after divine things; we begin to live a life of faith and holiness. Now Christ is formed in the hearts; now we are partakers of the divine nature, having been made new creatures (2 Corinthians 5:17). God, not man, is the source of this transformation (Ephesians 2:1, 8). God’s great love and free gift, His rich grace and abundant mercy, are the cause of the rebirth. The mighty power of God—the power that raised Christ from the dead—is displayed in the regeneration and conversion of sinners (Ephesians 1:19–20).

Regeneration is necessary. Sinful human flesh cannot stand in God’s presence. In His conversation with Nicodemus, Jesus said twice that a man must be born again in order to see the kingdom of God (John 3:3, 7). Regeneration is not optional, for “flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit” (John 3:6). Physical birth fits us for earth; spiritual rebirth fits us for heaven. See Ephesians 2:1; 1 Peter 1:23; John 1:13; 1 John 3:9; 4:7; 5:1, 4, 18. Regeneration is part of what God does for us at the moment of salvation, along with sealing (Ephesians 1:14), adoption (Galatians 4:5), reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:18–20), etc. Regeneration is God’s making a person spiritually alive, as a result of faith in Jesus Christ. Prior to salvation we were not God’s children (John 1:12–13); rather, we were children of wrath (Ephesians 2:3; Romans 5:18–20). Before salvation, we were degenerate; after salvation we are regenerated. The result of regeneration is peace with God (Romans 5:1), new life (Titus 3:5; 2 Corinthians 5:17), and eternal sonship (John 1:12–13; Galatians 3:26). Regeneration begins the process of sanctification wherein we become the people God intends us to be (Romans 8:28–30).

The only means of regeneration is by faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross. No amount of good works or keeping of the Law can regenerate the heart. “By works of the law no human being will be justified in [God’s] sight” (Romans 3:20). Only Christ offers a cure for the total depravity of the human heart. We don’t need renovation or reformation or reorganization; we need rebirth.

https://gotquestions.org/regeneration-Bible.html
Awesome! Great article, Bro. Andy! Thank you for posting!
 

DaveS

Well-Known Member
Good afternoon Albert R,

Let me take a crack at your enigma, Dave, by asking you a question on Matt. 22:29-33,
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. 31 But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” 33 And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.
Was Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob regenerated?
God bless you,
your brother in Christ,
Albert R.

One thing about the Sadducees that bears repeating, is they denied both the resurrection and a spiritual afterlife. As I understand it, after the body was dead, the Sadducees believed the soul ceased to exist. Your question to me is whether or not Abraham, Issac, and Jacob were regenerated... which I believe old testament saints were regenerated. I think the passage certainly teaches this truth, although I think the context as related to the beliefs of the Sadducees makes it a harder passage to substantiate that truth.

Kind regards,
Dave
 

DaveS

Well-Known Member
Good afternoon sir,

Question: "What is regeneration according to the Bible?"

Answer:
Another word for regeneration is rebirth, related to the biblical phrase “born again.” Our rebirth is distinguished from our first birth, when we were conceived physically and inherited our sin nature. The new birth is a spiritual, holy, and heavenly birth that results in our being made alive spiritually. Man in his natural state is “dead in trespasses and sins” until he is “made alive” (regenerated) by Christ. This happens when he places his faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:1).

Regeneration is a radical change. Just as our physical birth resulted in a new individual entering the earthly realm, our spiritual birth results in a new person entering the heavenly realm (Ephesians 2:6). After regeneration, we begin to see and hear and seek after divine things; we begin to live a life of faith and holiness. Now Christ is formed in the hearts; now we are partakers of the divine nature, having been made new creatures (2 Corinthians 5:17). God, not man, is the source of this transformation (Ephesians 2:1, 8). God’s great love and free gift, His rich grace and abundant mercy, are the cause of the rebirth. The mighty power of God—the power that raised Christ from the dead—is displayed in the regeneration and conversion of sinners (Ephesians 1:19–20).

Regeneration is necessary. Sinful human flesh cannot stand in God’s presence. In His conversation with Nicodemus, Jesus said twice that a man must be born again in order to see the kingdom of God (John 3:3, 7). Regeneration is not optional, for “flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit” (John 3:6). Physical birth fits us for earth; spiritual rebirth fits us for heaven. See Ephesians 2:1; 1 Peter 1:23; John 1:13; 1 John 3:9; 4:7; 5:1, 4, 18. Regeneration is part of what God does for us at the moment of salvation, along with sealing (Ephesians 1:14), adoption (Galatians 4:5), reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:18–20), etc. Regeneration is God’s making a person spiritually alive, as a result of faith in Jesus Christ. Prior to salvation we were not God’s children (John 1:12–13); rather, we were children of wrath (Ephesians 2:3; Romans 5:18–20). Before salvation, we were degenerate; after salvation we are regenerated. The result of regeneration is peace with God (Romans 5:1), new life (Titus 3:5; 2 Corinthians 5:17), and eternal sonship (John 1:12–13; Galatians 3:26). Regeneration begins the process of sanctification wherein we become the people God intends us to be (Romans 8:28–30).

The only means of regeneration is by faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross. No amount of good works or keeping of the Law can regenerate the heart. “By works of the law no human being will be justified in [God’s] sight” (Romans 3:20). Only Christ offers a cure for the total depravity of the human heart. We don’t need renovation or reformation or reorganization; we need rebirth.

https://gotquestions.org/regeneration-Bible.html

I've read the article before, thanks for posting it. I've also read the question and answer session with Jack Kelley before.

It seems to me that both articles support the position that the OT saints were not regenerated. Something that bothers me about that position is that the state of total depravity (before regeneration) puts man at enmity with God, and it can not submit to God (Rom. 8:7); this is a truth that spans both Old and New Testaments. Hol, mentioned the hall of faith in (Hebrews 11)... seems to me that an exercising of faith can not be in harmony with a mind governed by the flesh. That's only one defense against a position that OT saints were not regenerated... I think there is more evidence also.

Mind you, I'm only responding to my interpretation of two articles, not putting words in to yours or anyone's mouths.

God bless, thanks for responding
Dave
 

DaveS

Well-Known Member
I think the question here that deserves more attention is were Old testaments saints regenerated apart from works of the law.

Well... the only thing that makes that a moot point is that scripture is explicitly clear that the law is not the basis of righteousness (Rom. 3:20; Gal. 2:16). I realize that this focuses more attention on justification, but the two elements to salvation are closely related.

It certainly is an avenue that could be traveled though. In my opinion. If nothing else, than to uncover why some may cling to the idea that obedience to the law brought spiritual salvation.
 

Brother Albert R.

Jesus loved us and said we should Love our enemies
Good afternoon Albert R,



One thing about the Sadducees that bears repeating, is they denied both the resurrection and a spiritual afterlife. As I understand it, after the body was dead, the Sadducees believed the soul ceased to exist. Your question to me is whether or not Abraham, Issac, and Jacob were regenerated... which I believe old testament saints were regenerated. I think the passage certainly teaches this truth, although I think the context as related to the beliefs of the Sadducees makes it a harder passage to substantiate that truth.

Kind regards,
Dave
Do you love coffee Dave? I think you must. Anyway that was a good question you posted. With some great input by all participants...except me for :(.
The reason I put those particular passages forward is for the simple reason that I had read them this morning and was thinking about my seventh day Adventist friend who believes in soul sleep. As I read those passages it occurred to me that Jesus was alluding to the fact that the passage in the old testament were showing the condition of the old testament saints even before Jesus had paid the penalty for sin. Jesus claimed that they were alive...and that God is the God of the living. The old testament saints were looking forward in faith to the cross while the new testament saints are looking back in faith.
Your thoughts.:bounceball
God bless you,
your brother in Christ,
Albert R.
 

jonshaff

Fellow Servant
Well... the only thing that makes that a moot point is that scripture is explicitly clear that the law is not the basis of righteousness (Rom. 3:20; Gal. 2:16). I realize that this focuses more attention on justification, but the two elements to salvation are closely related.

It certainly is an avenue that could be traveled though. In my opinion. If nothing else, than to uncover why some may cling to the idea that obedience to the law brought spiritual salvation.

Another question would be, "If someone is regenerated in the OT, could they become unregenerated?"
 
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